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TOPIC: pgn-files

pgn-files 11 months 1 week ago #594

Well note, I said the "top however many" moves when using live book.
I am looking at it now from 1.e4 e5, 2. d4 cd4 and the ONLY lines anyone plays are:
3. Qd4
3. Nf3
3. Bc4
3. f4 (I've played this last one several times...don't recommend it!)

All the others are simply technically 'legal' moves. If you click say 3.Nf3, it then gives a bunch of moves for Black...only 2 ever get any play. So it's taking into account transpositions. I can't fathom why you would even try to put 3.Nc3 into a homemade book. You may already know this but I'm stating it for anyone else who might stumble upon this thread.

I just created a Closed Sicilian 'repertoire' using Live Book. As I am interested in this from the White side, I mainly just started with an empty board, opened Live Book...started clicking on the top line for White (for the most part...certain white tries do not suite my style) then any reasonable reply by black and took each a few moves...made a quick repertoire and will let CPT do it's analysis. This to give me something new after 1.Nc3 (my repertoire begins with this)...c5, 2.Nc3 Nc6, 3.f4 g6 and now 4.g3 (lost faith in the Grand Prix attack from this Black set up)and will mold the results into something easy to play without any big White pitfalls.

Regarding importing PGN files...I'm really referring to a good one where a GM or IM has already done the 'thinking' for you...so as to avoid lots of stupid or really weak lines from your chosen side. I've done that in CPT for Hellesen's Sicilian Kan book, Smeredon's Scandanavian and Williams Dutch ebooks.

What I then do is trim these into MY chosen repertoire as they may offer alternate lines...adding my own analysis along the way. But the key thing is that a 'better set of eyes' than mine have already looked at the material. Using Live Book essentially would be doing the same (but without words) using the wisdom of the masses you might say.

It seems however like you want to essentially build an ECO (?). It is going to be much less of a headache if you imported that from Chess Informant and maybe then adjusted using CPT. If you do it on your own, you are relying on your own 'eyes' for what lines to include at each and every turn, even in opening you will never play....seems like you are trying to do a project that has already been done by accomplished compilers. I can see where it might be fun so I at least hope you have fun with it.
Last Edit: 11 months 1 week ago by leavenfish.
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pgn-files 11 months 1 week ago #595

I know ofcourse that i gave a stupid example with Nc3 but i wanted to make clear how i think that the livebook works. So lets take you´re more realistic example 1.e4 e5 2.d4 ed4: 3.Nf3 after which you say "it then gives a bunch of moves for Black...only 2 ever get any play. So it's taking into account transpositions."
I think you mean the 2 moves 3...Nc6 (13202 times) and 2...d6 (2756 times). But in fact the most played moves in this position are : 3...Nc6 (2250 times), 3...Bb4 (423 times) , 3....d5 (338 times) and then 3....d6 (281 times). At least according to my database containing 13,5 million games (see attached printscreen). So that is what i mean when i say that the livebook counts transpositions leading to excisting positions in games instead what many people think the actual played moves in the given position.
(See also the second printscreen to see that after 3...Nc6 live-book gives 13.000 times played while my database gives 10 times more.) This made me wondering how chessbase counts in the live-book.

Refering to importing PGN-files you are completely rigth. I just wanted to warn people importing files from less quality. The way you do it is the correct way when you want to examine a certain variation. The only disadvantage is then that when you do it that way you can get the same position in different openings / databases when there are transpositions. But when people don`t mind that it is perfectly working.

I just want 1 database where i want to have a move order occurring after a certain position just once.
So not the following position examined in different opening-lines/databases
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 c5 4.e3 cxd4 5.Bxc4 e6 6.exd4 Nf6
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 dxc4 5.Bxc4 e6 6.Nf3 Nf6
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e3 c5 4.Bxc4 cxd4 5.exd4 Nf6 6.Nf3 e6
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 dxc4 5.Bxc4 Nf6 6.Nf3 e6
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 c5 5.Bxc4 cxd4 6.exd4 e6
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 c5 4.e3 cxd4 5.exd4 e6 6.Bxc4 Nf6
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e3 c5 4.Bxc4 cxd4 5.exd4 e6 6.Nf3 Nf6
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 c5 4.e3 cxd4 5.exd4 Nf6 6.Bxc4 e6
these and many other move orders all leading to the same position


So i want a clean database with the same end-position occurring once and not scattered over several databases arising from several move-orders. But that is my way of working, as already stated time-consuming but at the end efficient i think (hope :) ).
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pgn-files 11 months 1 week ago #596

here are the mentioned printscreens to illustrate the live-book comments.

www.mediafire.com/?uwc2y826oa9r0dc
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pgn-files 11 months 1 week ago #597

I see. Thanks for putting it that way.

Yes, Chessbase is a 'games database' so you are going to have issues trying to get what you want.

I just spent a half hour on my old ChessAssistant #12 ( a position database, essentially like CPT)...thought maybe I could take that QGD position and export all the positions that could lead to it...but can only get a PDF that doesn't get all the moves like you want. Perhaps there is a way in CA, but I can't figure it out...it's complicated with all those 'datasets' and such...only use Chessbase now.

Sorry, not sure how to help you. As CPT is rather like CA...perhaps Stefan might have an idea of how to get you what you want...drop him a line. Good luck!
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pgn-files 11 months 1 week ago #598

Hallo,
first I must say that of course i know Chessbase but do'nt know the capabilities
of Chessbase.
Secondly I am a hobby-programmer since 30 years. I have fun to perform a new
program.
That's all.
Mathias
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pgn-files 5 months 3 days ago #786

Hi all,
for some reasons I only found out about this discussion now. I just wanted to share with you the info that I've implemented something that should be what you are looking for, if I understand it correctly. Actually, it is a major new feature based of a more complex idea already written down many years ago.

In the candidate windows you will see game statistics with the next release. Existing candidate moves will have the data and "missing" moves will be listed and can be added to your opening by one click.

You can either create your own opening book or use one I will create based on some million games. Then you will see how likely a move is, winning chances, best ELO played the move etc.

More to come.
- Stefan
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